TheMetalList.Com: Tell us about the new Ayreon album: what is it about, and what is the main difference, from your point of view, from previous Ayreon albums (if there is one)?
Arjen Lukassen: Yes, I think there is a difference. I think the music might be a bit heavier, and the lyrics are a little more cryptic. The Human Equation was a very clear story. It was about a man who had an accident, fell into a coma, and was confronted by his own emotions, each portrayed by different singers. So it was a fairly straightforward story, and this time I wanted to make it a bit more complicated, a bit more challenging. I've also been through a rather dark period in my life, and I think that's reflected in the music. The whole atmosphere is a bit darker than before.
And why did you decide to convert the album's title into binary form?
Because the album is about these creatures called 'Forever' who are water beings on a planet called Y. These beings have become completely dependent on technology, and in the process they've lost their emotions. The only way they communicate is in binary code, which you can hear in the song "We Are Forever" and in the first song "Age of Shadows" - you can hear the singing in binary code. The working title of the album was actually The Sixth Extinction. It looked good but was a bit hard to pronounce - a bit of a tongue-twister. And suddenly I thought, wouldn't it be cool to give the album a binary code title? At first everyone said, "Oh, you're crazy, you can't do it. It's way too complicated, stupid, and very nerdy." But I did it anyway. I like to be a bit different and a bit more challenging. And I just did it.
Yeah, that's really great, but we're wondering why you did that...
And you know the funny thing? Everyone is talking about it. Half the people think it's stupid, it's crazy, and how are you going to order it in record shops. And the other half say, "No, it's cool, it's cool." And everyone is talking about it!
Yes, you did it and everyone is talking about it!
That's it, that's the idea.
How would you describe the style of the new album? Maybe the musical style, the concept, or the design. A couple of words about the style, please.
As I said, it's darker, heavier, more cryptic, and maybe even more emotional.
What would you say if someone accused you of being repetitive? The same instruments, the same sound, the same musical structure...
I'd say I take it as a compliment. If people say it sounds typically like Ayreon, I think that's kind of cool because it means that over the years I've developed my own sound. It's better than people saying, "Oh, it sounds like Tool" or "It sounds like Porcupine Tree." They say, "It sounds like Ayreon," which I see as a compliment. And I do think this album has a lot of references to my older songs musically, and it has the typical Ayreon sound, but I still think it adds enough new stuff to be interesting. For the next album, though, I should come up with something very different. But it's always a tough choice because fans want me to do what they like, which is the typical Ayreon sound. But for me, of course, it's more challenging to deviate a little from that.
How did you select the artists to sing on this album? How do you usually do it?
Well, every time I hear a good singer, I write the name down because I want to work with them. This time I also really listened to the fans' suggestions. For instance, the most suggested singers were Hansi Kursch, Daniel Gildenlow, and Tom S. Englund from Evergrey. It's very simple - they have to move me emotionally. I have to hear a voice or a sound or a keyboard solo or a guitar solo that moves me. Then I write it down, and when I'm making the album and have to choose the singers, I've got this list of about thirty, forty, or maybe fifty musicians, and I choose the ones I think fit the style of the album best.
Who did you most enjoy working with this time? Maybe you can share a short interesting or funny story about your collaboration?
I don't have personal favourites. Really, I don't. Because I've asked all these people because I'm a fan of theirs. So it's very hard for me to choose between these singers - they're all completely different. I mean, how can you compare a singer like Jorn Lande with a singer like Jonas Renske? It's very hard. I'd say I have no personal favourites. There were plenty of funny stories, actually. A lot of really funny guys this time around. Daniel Gildenlow is very funny, Bob Catley was very funny. And there's actually a DVD with the album where you can see a lot of the funny stuff that happened.
OK, we'll check it out. You usually don't invite the same vocalists to perform on different albums twice. But there are nice exceptions, like Anneke van Giersbergen. Do you have any contact with her outside of Ayreon recording sessions? Have you ever thought of collaborating with her on her project Agua de Annique?
Well, that would be nice, of course. But I don't think she'd ask me because she has a fixed band. If she did ask me, I'd definitely do it, but I don't think she would. Basically, the rule of working with all new musicians only applied to my previous album. For The Human Equation I had the rule of wanting to work just with new musicians. But this time I didn't have that rule, which allowed me to work with a great singer like Anneke again.
Everybody is wondering why a Dutch rapper ended up on your project... Could you tell us about that?
Well, that's a funny story. He actually added himself as a friend on MySpace. I looked at his page and was surprised - "What the fuck is a rapper doing here? Why did he add himself as a friend?" So I listened to his music and wondered what he saw in mine. Then I looked at his favourite albums and bands, and they were: Ayreon, Dream Theater, and Pain of Salvation. I was surprised. Then I listened to one of his other songs on MySpace and it was beautiful, a bit like James LaBrie. So I got in contact with him and he said, "Please, let me do one scream on your album. I'll be in seventh heaven. Please." He's actually a great singer. And I really love it when people are open-minded, when they're not like "I only want this" or "I only want that." Just think back to Aerosmith doing "Walk This Way" with Run-DMC. That was cool.
Are you going to release any singles for the new album, as you did for The Human Equation?
Probably, yes. I hadn't thought about it before because I don't really think there are singles on the album. But the record company contacted me and said they'd like to do a single. So I'm going to choose one and pick a couple of nice bonus tracks. I did some acoustic shows in the last few weeks - we could use some material from those, or maybe some other surprises. So I think there will be a single again.
One of the singles from The Human Equation era had a Beatles cover as a B-side. Please tell us a little about it: why, how, where, and when it was recorded. How did the idea of covering such a classic come to you?
Which song?
When I'm Sixty-Four.
That was actually a recording I still have somewhere. I think it's twenty years old. There was a Dutch magazine called Music Maker, and anyone could send in a Beatles cover - one entry would win a prize. So we recorded the song, and I think we never even sent it in. It's just something I recorded twenty years ago. I found it again and thought it'd be cool to use it. The nice thing about it is that it has a lot of Beatles quotes - you can hear all these little melodies in the song. It's like twenty different Beatles songs in one.
Are you a Beatles fan?
I'm a huge Beatles fan. The Beatles and Pink Floyd are my two all-time favourite bands.
Would you like to do more covers on future Ayreon singles? Which songs would be interesting for you to cover?
I actually did a whole album of covers. It's called Strange Hobby. I think I recorded it after Actual Fantasy. It has two Beatles songs - "Norwegian Wood" and "For No One". The album is very hard to find now; it's sold out, and I think they only made a thousand copies. So it's something of a collector's item. As for future singles, I've no idea - I'll have to think about it. It's a bit scary to touch Beatles songs because the originals are so great.
Have you seen the Across the Universe movie?
No, I've read about it.
There are a lot of good Beatles covers in it.
You mentioned Anneke - when she was playing in Greece, I came on stage with her and we played "Across the Universe" acoustic. If you search YouTube you can find it. It was with Agua de Annique, and we did two songs: "Valley of the Queens" and "Across the Universe".
Some technical questions. A while ago, when InsideOut re-released the entire Ayreon back catalogue, the Actual Fantasy album was released with a bonus DVD containing the entire album in multichannel format. Who came up with the idea of remixing it in 5.1? Are you completely satisfied with the result?
I'm extremely satisfied with the result. I absolutely love it. Unfortunately, it didn't sell well. People didn't catch on to it, which I think is a shame because we had so much fun doing it in 5.1 - playing with the sound, sending it from front to back. I'm extremely satisfied with it.
Do you think some music really benefits from 5.1 mixing? What about Ayreon's music? Do you listen to any music in multichannel format?
It's perfect for my music because there are so many different voices, so many different instruments. Suddenly you can hear all the instruments. If you have three voices, you can put one in the back left, one in the back right, and one in the centre speaker. There's so much you can do. For my music it's perfect. But unfortunately, the interest in 5.1 isn't that great. And doing a 5.1 production is very expensive and time-consuming - it takes a couple of weeks. And of course you can only do it if people are buying it. So far there's not much interest in 5.1, unfortunately, because I'd love to use it for every album.
Is there any chance we'll hear other albums in 5.1? For example, the last two, which have very clear sound and great choirs?
I'd love to, but the record company would have to invest in it. And they'll only invest if they know there's demand. Actually, for The Human Equation we did one song in 5.1 - "Day Eleven"; it's on a DVD. And on this album we did "Beneath the Waves" in 5.1.
Do you listen to any music in multichannel format?
Yes, sure.
Can you remember which multichannel record you liked most, or which was the last one you bought?
The last one I bought was Wish You Were Here by Pink Floyd. It's my favourite album of all time. And in 5.1 it was very interesting.
You mentioned you know Porcupine Tree. Have you heard them in 5.1?
Not yet, but I look forward to it because I love Porcupine Tree. I don't know if their music is really suited for 5.1, but I'll definitely check it out.
I've got some broader questions left. Given the theme of human self-destruction that runs through Ayreon albums, what can you say about world culture (and particularly music) now? The legends that can draw huge crowds are all from the 20th century, mainly from the 70s and 80s - Metallica, Depeche Mode, Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin - and the current era doesn't seem to produce such strong charismatic figures. Why? What's happening with poetry, painting, sculpture, and literature now?
It's all becoming digital. New bands have very little chance to grow. If you listen to the first Zeppelin album, it wasn't perfect yet. If you listen to the first Beatles album, it can't be compared to what they did on Sgt. Pepper. And the first Floyd album was a challenge - there's no comparison to The Dark Side of the Moon. But back in those days, bands had a chance to grow and learn. Nowadays they don't have that anymore, because when you're in a new band and you release an album, it's on the Internet and people just download it. They don't even bother going to the shop to buy it. We musicians have to survive on income from CD sales - that's the only income we have, because playing live is expensive too. Unless you're a huge band like the Stones, where you can charge a hundred euros for a ticket. When you're a new band, you even have to pay to play. So it's becoming very hard for new bands. It's becoming easier to promote yourself with MySpace and such, but people, especially the younger generation, will just download it. They don't know the joy of buying actual CDs. I think that's a big part of it.
But don't you think that culture in general is degrading now? We don't have any huge names...
No, I think it's because of the MySpace generation. You're big one day and gone the next. And you have to make very simple, easy music if you want to stand a chance. That's why I'm crazy for doing this kind of music. My music has to grow on you - you have to listen to the album three times before you even like it. And new bands don't have that chance. I mean, they're here one day, like The Darkness. Everyone loves them, they're huge, and the next day they can go home. That's the end of the band. They don't get a chance to grow enough. I think there's just as much talent as there was in the 70s or the 80s, but they don't get a chance to develop. Because of downloading, I think strange things will happen to music. Music will become a hobby again. You'll probably have a regular job, and besides your job you'll make music, because you can't make a living from music anymore with downloading going on. I think that has a lot to do with it. Older bands don't have this problem - they can play live, everyone knows them, and they charge enormous amounts of money for shows. As for my music, people already have my CDs in their collections, and when I release a new one, they want to keep the collection complete. But if a new band releases a CD, people don't own any of their previous records, so they'll just download it.
You're one of those musicians who record successful albums. You have a contract with a good label, collaborate with famous musicians, and you've also toured well with Star One and the Stream of Passion project. Are you satisfied with your musical career? What project would you like to dedicate yourself to in the future? Do you feel you want to explore directions you haven't tried yet?
Of course, if I look at my career, it's like a dream come true. The way I did it was by taking one step at a time. When I started playing guitar, all I wanted to do was play in a band. I didn't dream of becoming famous - I just wanted to play in a band. OK, then I played in a band, and my next dream was to play live. OK, then I played live, and then my next dream was to make a CD. OK, I made a CD. And the next dream was to do a proper tour. So I always took it one step at a time, which means I only started Ayreon when I was thirty-five. And even then I took it one step at a time. I just wanted to make an album that I liked and had no commercial agenda. I really didn't expect people to like it and didn't expect it to be successful. And I think that's exactly why it was successful - I did it purely from the heart and it worked. So my future plans? To keep going like that. Not to plan ahead, not to think "this will be good" or "that will work." No, just let the inspiration come to me and guide me into the next project, whatever it may be.
If you could attend one hypothetical concert somewhere far from Holland, which would it be?
Well, if we're talking about the dead, it would of course be the Beatles - to see John Lennon. Or Pink Floyd getting back together; they're all still alive. All they have to do is get Roger and Dave to make up. That would be extremely cool.
The last question is about the country I'm from. It's interesting to know what you know about russia. Have you been to russia? What's your impression of us and what's going on in our country? And maybe you know some russian music - what do you like most?
Unfortunately, I don't know that much russian music, which is a shame. I've heard some stuff. I have a few good friends in russia that I email a lot, and sometimes they send me things which I really like. Of course there's this James Bond image of the russians - that they're cold-hearted people. But I know better because, as I said, I correspond with a lot of people from russia. And I feel that we're very close - we have the same kind of humour and the same interests in music. Unfortunately, I've never been to russia, and I'd definitely like to go. It's a shame I don't play live, or I would have definitely played there already. Maybe as a tourist, or for some touring and promotion - I hope to go to russia. Well, I hope some russian company will invite me for some promotion. I'd be there. Definitely.
And the very last question. Do you have any hobbies? Tell us about one.
My hobby is mainly watching DVDs. I love that - I love watching science fiction TV series and movies. That's my hobby.
Thank you very much. All the russian fans send their warmest regards. And I'm very glad I had the chance to have this conversation with you. Thank you.
You are welcome.
Special thanks to Aleksey Kuzovlev (Irond) for organizing this interview.